Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Cpt von Fouffypants

Raid Training

Recommended Posts

Hello,

 

Just to start off I would like to place a disclaimer that I am a total noob to raiding. I have joined 3 of the raid trainings to date, all led by different players, and thought I would point out what seems to be the most common issue with the raid trainings.

 

It would seem I am not alone, there are large amounts of TTS members showing up with no idea about raiding and while it is posted and stated that you need at the very least ascended weapons and jewelry it is not stated what kind (as this is often role specific). Of the 3 raids I currently joined a lot of time was spent learning the mechanics only to learn after an hour that some of the players are not specced properly. Meaning while they had ascended they were using toughness armor and trinkets or the wrong weapon sets, and or possibly the wrong builds all together.

 

I  was thinking that perhaps it would be a good idea to have pre-raid training class lessons. Say grab a group of players who want to learn to play Tempest in a raid, bring them to the training dummy in the mists and talk about build, equipment and (something that I personally find difficult to learn through an online medium) rotation.

 

Maybe this is too much hand holding? The argument could be made that this is not pre-school here and we are all mature (most of us adults) and we should be able to do the reading and research on our own. However I felt it was worth at least making the suggestion in the hopes that it would make training raid sessions a bit easier. At the very least the commanders of the squads should take the time to go through their ranks and know what each of the 9 raiders is equipped with and using since as we've seen even if we ask for a toughness checked some players just don't speak up for whatever reason.

 

Looking forward to many more raids with TTS and my first kill.

 

Cheers and have fun!

 

and as Lord Erin would say "AWW YEK!!!"

Edited by Cpt von Fouffypants

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  Wait people play this game with more than 1000 toughness without being tank?  o.O

 

 As for the post I do agree.   We did have a toughness check in our group which helped clear the air.   Our DPS was rather insane,  we just had some issues with mechanics.   The issue I think is the set ups can be rather long,  and overall it is expected for people to know their class before attending (hence Merf's 4 rules).   Unfortunately there isn't a way to effectively micromanage everyone to make sure they're running the right build and class.   Hopefully we think of ways to make it more clear to the player base that raids aren't hand holding content and everyone needs to be on their A game and willing to make changes to their builds and playstyle to ensure successful raids.

 

  My advice would be when you split into groups to do the overall set up of builds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If people don't have the right trinkets, their group leader can suggest to them what trinkets to bring. The problem therein lies in the fact that not everybody that comes to training raids has the laurels to make those adjustments; nor would they necessarily have the willingness to. If someone has a full rabid/dire character geared for WvW and that's what they're dead set on bringing, there is nothing you can do short of affording them the opportunity to change something or kicking them and finding a replacement.

 

Spoon-feeding information that can easily be found on the Internet veers into hand-holding, which can be dangerous as the expectation branches into other forms. Raiding in general does require a degree of accountability. Toughness check is the minimum expectation, and if people can't be honest about that, then really... How far can they expect to get?

 

Bottomline: training raids are also meant mainly for people to get exposure to mechanics so that they can make it within progressive guild-based groups or LFR groups to get their kills. Kills in training raids should be expected at most to be a bonus - not a guarantee.

 

Also @Raven Paradox, you would be surprised at how much toughness the average player runs with. There is a reason most players despise the Berserker meta.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Inari said:

Also @Raven Paradox, you would be surprised at how much toughness the average player runs with. There is a reason most players despise the Berserker meta.

 

Like me, I was running Celestial on my Ele for the longest time before switching to Bezerk and despise it. 

 

But in all seriousness, if you want to do raids, you need to do minor research. All you really need to do is watch a video on youtube of the fight and look at metabattle.com for viable builds. They will tell you which armor and crap to get.

 

Raids are not for the common player!  

 

But we want to welcome anyone to join us! But you need to meet us half way. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TTS training raids are a great way to get started. The trainers are plenty patient and happy to teach, other experienced raiders can also chip in to help and give advice. However, you shouldn't expect that you can just bring whatever gear or build and expect us to make it work. Raids don't work like that. You want Vale Guardian to be led by one tank so it doesn't go all over the place or in later phases, be somewhere you don't really want it to be, e.g. be in the wrong segment and a green circle is up in a lighted segment. Gorserval is a DPS check and if you can't damage it down in time, you wipe. If the timer runs out and the bosses enrage, you wipe. A Slothasor run can easily be ruined by a single badly placed poison.

 

The purpose of training raids isn't for newbies to get carried, it's to provide a friendly environment for them to learn the mechanics and get them started, letting them get a feel of what a raid encounter/boss is. That being said, you have to at least be willing to play what is meta, there is a reason why they are meta builds. Raids aren't like open world where you can just press 1 with nomads gear and you're good. Our requirement is to have at least ascended weapons and trinkets, exotic armour pieces BUT they must be the right stat. Like Seyo said, you have to compromise with us. 

 

Metabattle is a good place to start, but I personally would recommend qT forums. They not only tell you what traits to run and what type of gear to run, there are tips for different bosses for each class and videos with what rotation of skills you want to do in order to get the most of your build. That being said, how does everyone feel about putting a link to say metabattle or qT forums on the 10 man raids channel description? Some people arrive early for training raids and you could easily tell them click the links, check their builds etc. 

Edited by Crystalliser

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I want to get into raiding but a lot of groups nowadays only want experienced players. I had to opportunity to complete Spirit Vale with my best friend getting me into their raid as a first time healer. It was hella fun and I wanted to do more. I want to keep practicing the mechanics and be able to confidently do all the raids.

 

I already got the nessessary food and basic gear for it (I have an ascended set but it isn't for healing. It's my general set build. So i'm aiming for a second set for healing ;u; ) So if anyone wants a Druid healer that isn't too noobish in Spirit Vale hit me up! I'd love to go <3

 

PS - Gorserval is by far the most fun boss i've fought in yrs xD

 

Also, to whomever stated you need (at least) ascended gear for it - not true. You can get by doing Spirit Vale with full Exotics if 1) you're built right, 2) know your class in and out and 3) do not screw up AT ALL. Hard mode engaged with everyone full exotic and nothing else....but doable if done correctly. Proof is here. Not advised...But ye. lol

Edited by Hezrou

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Captain Seyo said:

 

Like me, I was running Celestial on my Ele for the longest time before switching to Bezerk and despise it. 

 

See @NexForce, another ele that was running Celestial (before raiding). :whistle:

 

OT:  I think this is also why Jacobbs stopped doing his training raids, because it took awhile to do setup since some people (myself included the first time) either didn't gear right or didn't look up build beforehand.  It would be nice to have everyone setup before hand, but I don't think that will happen since/if we get new people each week (hopefully the returning have prepared after the first week).

Also, the more time spent telling people the builds (the metabattle site has everything you need, as long as you actually read the different sections) means the less time spent actually learning/experiencing the mechanics of whichever boss.

In theory you could ask for all those that don't know the build or aren't properly equipped to group up in the same training group, thus they could get help with the build(s) from the leader of that group and then experience only some of the mechanics.  But that would kind of be asking a lot of whomever is leading that group.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Training raids are primarily to introduce people to raids , not so much to get kills. While getting kills is nice, it's not a huge focus. 

 

My primary aims with training raids is :

  1. Introduce people to raids, the meta and higher expectations in a raid environment. All in a friendly and welcoming manner
  2. Scout for talent and potential leaders for formation of future static groups
  3. Push current experienced static group members outside of their comfort zone to improve and become better people and players

Ultimately, while gear checking every single person would be ideal, it is not the best investment of time. Currently we're running 4-5 training groups per session excluding EU. The time it would take to gear check appropriately 50 players is not insignificant, and hence i rely on an honor and trust system for it to happen. This goes both ways yeah?

 

What i generally find is, a complete new person, who doesn't know what to expect, wearing random exotics they got on the way to 80, will have a bit of a hard time in their first training raid. I generally deal with it by compensating in other areas such as 1800 toughness tank instead of 1401. Note this is only if they don't have alternate gear they can get there and then. I find it doesn't really impact the run too much in 90% of cases and I've only had to bench 2 new people because of this in the last few months I've been running training raids.

 

The important part then comes, after the raids, I provide that specific person feedback and advice, especially on gear choice. I find if they're interested in raids, they'll fix it and come back the next training raid all good to go, they don't come back because they're not interested in raids, or they won't change. In the event of them not changing, the training raid group is small enough that these players will be flagged after the second or third repeat, in which case they just won't be picked at all. 

 

While it's not the best system, it's a system that works and is sustainable for now. Training raids are a great way imo to meet TTS members you might not have otherwise talked to in Teq / TT. It allows for more intimate bonding, and is a great way for everyone to progress together as a group if they don't have a static group. From the training raids, static groups will naturally form and I'll be there to support it. My static was half old school sign up, half from training raids. Brights was completely from training raids. 

 

tl;dr : Training raids is about the experience, not the kill. I'm always on the look out for more static groups to be setup and leaders willing to lead them on a consistent basis. This can only happen with training raids. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well said Merf. How do you feel about adding links to the description? I personally feel it could help and it's not like there's much going on in the description anyways. Others may disagree on that though. 

 

7 hours ago, Hezrou said:

Also, to whomever stated you need (at least) ascended gear for it - not true. You can get by doing Spirit Vale with full Exotics if 1) you're built right, 2) know your class in and out and 3) do not screw up AT ALL. Hard mode engaged with everyone full exotic and nothing else....but doable if done correctly. Proof is here. Not advised...But ye. lol

 

@Hezrou, do keep in mind we are talking about training raids here. Most of the time it isn't going to be everyone being comfortable/confident with the class and knowing the mechanics of the encounter/boss 100%, much less not screwing up at all. Of course you shouldn't expect a kill, however having the right ascended weapons and trinkets can make quite a bit of difference towards getting closer to getting one. If they're really interested, they'll probably get started on making full ascended to raid more anyways.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Crystalliser said:

Well said Merf. How do you feel about adding links to the description? I personally feel it could help and it's not like there's much going on in the description anyways. Others may disagree on that though. 

 

 

@Hezrou, do keep in mind we are talking about training raids here. Most of the time it isn't going to be everyone being comfortable/confident with the class and knowing the mechanics of the encounter/boss 100%, much less not screwing up at all. Of course you shouldn't expect a kill, however having the right ascended weapons and trinkets can make quite a bit of difference towards getting closer to getting one. If they're really interested, they'll probably get started on making full ascended to raid more anyways.

Oh I know. To be honest I've only cleared the first wing of Spirit Vale. And the sloth in the second. Past that i'm totally new. But I would love to learn it and practice it regardless :3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.