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Light Guardian Jack

Spirt Vale Raid Build and Composition Guide

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Guide is Work in progress
I’ll add a section about composition after the build section.

 

Introduction
So Metabattle and every other central build directories is taking forever to put up builds people have found so far in Raids. The meta is still somewhat young but still a lot of the key staples have already been established. So here’s a central directory of all the good to meta builds I have found so far.
I’ll add a section for group composition later. 
 
Revanent
Most groups want around 1-2 Revanents for their easy fury generation. Their power DPS is strong, they have access to stacking tons of other boons and they can enhance the boon durations of their allies (your Chronomancer will like that). They can also tank if required. They're damage took a hit in the last update so you can't just stack 4 of them anymore and call it a day but most groups still want at least one of them. 


Herald Power DPS:http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Herald_-_S/A
Just grab a variant of this build if you want something you can use and get into 90% of most groups.


Tank Revhttp://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAsemnXN2gSqJvQR/kbosgyPU4Q5IKYr8ElFNFqdABoBsjJNxxugJshA-TxSBABPcCAMTJIXKRu4IAgimAAeAA8pFgS1fwTHwV7PKv04QAIKoMC-e

Food: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Lemongrass_Mussel_Pasta

Tank Rev works pretty well in Vale Guardian. Just remember to put on enough knights trinkets to pull aggro. 


Warrior
Warriors got smacked with the nerfbat recently but they're still a desired class in Raids. First off the Phalanx Strength build is still used for that might generation but also they have a decent condition damage build. The Burnzerker build used to be the undisputed best condition damage build against Gorseval (due to his large hitbox) but thanks to a Scotched earth change, that's no longer the case, it's still a good option for a Condi-damage slot but it's not the damage monster it used to be. Still you'll always want around 2 of them for that sweet might generation and they're still very few professions that can beat them in that department. 


The Old PS Warriorhttp://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Berserker_-_Phalanx_Strength
At the end of the day it still works like it always has. Hit things, give might, use banners, don’t get hit by other things.


Burnzerkerhttp://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Berserker_-_LB_S/T_Maximum_Condition
If you already have 2 PS warriors use this build. It got nerfed heavily but it's still a good option for ranged circle group on Vale Guardian and something if you have 3 Warriors.
 


Guardian
The word I’d use to describe Guardians in the current Raid meta now is niche. They have a few things they can offer in very specific roles in Vale Guardian and Sabatha that certain groups can make use of. However outside of these niches, they’re outclassed by nearly everyone else due to the fact that their damage is weak compared to some other power users.. For some more info I’d recommend reading my guide because what they can do differs on an encounter by encounter basis.


Guide: http://forums.ttsgamers.com/topic/2138-light-guardian-jacks-guide-to-guardian-in-raids/#comment-27517


Standard Dragonhunter: http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Dragonhunter_-_DPS/Support
The base build you still use. Keep in mind you should be modifying it based on the encounter your on. See the guide I posted earlier


Tank Dragonhunter
Dragonhunter is a decent tank on Vale Guardian, probably a strong choice for newer groups. Gorseval though they start to struggle compared to something like a Scrapper tank.
 


Ranger
They did it guys! They made the ranger meta! All it took was changing them into monks! In all seriousness, ya pretty much every Raid group uses one Druid as a healer. However you only really need one Druid and rangers are sorta typecast into that role. There’s no other popular power or condition DPS builds I’ve seen.


Healer Druid: 
Not much to say other then it’s a healer build, you probably need at least one of them. Small note though, for your first Raid clear, you should be as a heal heavy as a Druid as you can  be (without pulling aggro from your tank with toughness trinkets). That means using Magi armor, Zealots isn’t really worth the cost and berserker is only used if you have a speedclearing group going.
 


Engineer
I think everyone expected Condition Engineer to be the new staff elementalist. They’re not quite that strong but they overall fit the same role. If you just want straight condition damage, this is one the best choices. They can also make good tanks if you use the scrapper elite spec. The only real downside to engineer is that they’re hard to play. Trust me, you don’t try to learn how to be a good engy and the Raid encounters at the same time, it doesn’t work.


Condi-Engy: http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Engineer_-_Condition_Grenadier
When it doubt condi-engy. A lot of your addition skills outside of your skill rotation can be handy (pushback on flamethrower, water field on mortar kit, blinding skills on mortar and bomb kit). Only real problem is your damage drops off if your target is moving out of your napalm (Vale Guardian) or if you have to stay at ranged most of the time.


Scrapper Tank: (insert scrapper tank from diviner or somewhere here)
Scrapper tank is awesome, especially against gorseval. It’s basically the same as condi-engy but your tanking at the same time and you can break breakbars easier with slick shoes + the stun trait.
 


Thief

Thief started out in Raids as the black sheep. Now they’re in a more respectable position since they’re damage has caught up to the average (thanks to the auto-attack buff) and damage monsters like Condi-warrior have been nerfed. Still they don’t offer much besides damage which makes them hard to fit into every composition. As for whether or not Condi-thief or Power-Thief is better that depends on a few factors. Power-Thief overall does better on its own while Condi-thief does better with Alacrity and can contribute to breakbar breaking though they have a major weakness of being forced to be near 4 teammates in order to deal max damage (venom share is weak on Vale Guardian split phases). They’re still a really difficult profession to play and there’s a lot competition they have to deal with for the “Pure DPS” slots they’ll be looking for, still a decent choice if you honestly don’t have anything else

 


Guide: http://sickestguild.com/forum/m/31644179/viewthread/25303372-spirit-vale-dps-daredevil-guide
That guide has the best advice if you’re determined to use a thief in Raids right now and a couple builds
 


Mesmer
The Chronomancer is pretty much being taken by everyone for obvious reasons. They pump out crazy amounts of quickness and alacrity. You can also use some certain wells to make your allies invulnerable at key times and you have a couple knockbacks. There’s only room for one maybe two Chronomancers per team but almost every team will run a chronomancer. They can also tank and pump out their boons at the same time if you’re crazy good as well.


DPS Chronomancer: http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Chronomancer_-_Utility_DPS
There’s probably a lot more to playing standard chronomancer then I actually know so I’ll refer you to this guide if you want to learn more


Chrono-tank:http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Chronomancer_-_Chronotank
If that build wasn’t crazy enough for you, you can tank and do your quickness and alacrity thing at the same time. You’ll need some experience as a standard Chronomancer first but if you can pull off a Chrono-tank, you’re probably the best tank in the game.
 
 
 
Elementalist
Elementalist is in a good position. Not “the entire meta revolves around me!” good, just good. They have a good mix of damage and support that they can offer to the Raid. Their main selling point is that their Staff AoEs do very well on Gorseval and orb clearing duty. While Staff struggles a bit on mobile moving small hitbox enemies (Vale Guardian), the Dagger/Warhorn set can pick up the slack to keep the elementalist competitive. Finally there is a healing elementalist build I know of but I’ll talk about how the set performs a bit later.


Staff Tempest: http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Tempest_-_Staff_DPS

Same Staff build basically. Does extremely well vs Gorseval, ok vs Sabatha, not so well vs Vale Guardian. Luckily for the last one there’s a back-up build.

 

Dagger/Warhorn Tempest: http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Tempest_-_Fresh_Air_DPS
This is a good back-up set to learn. Does extremely well vs Vale Guardian in the melee group. Not sure if it or Staff is better for Sabatha.


Aura Healing Tempest: http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Tempest_-_Auramancer_Raid_Healer
So disclaimer, I don’t know how effective this is against Druid yet but I have seen it used by a couple groups (most notably WoodenPotatoes and Denoir’s exotic clearing group). Most groups will still just use a tried and tested druid but here’s an option if you want it.
 


Nercomancer
Ya guys about the Necromancer they are…. actually not bad at all! They've broken through their old reputation and now compete with the best condi-damage builds like the Condi-engy. Some people have accused it of being gimmicky because… it kinda is but thanks to epidemic and the jagged horrors you can pump out enough condi-damage to catch up and sometimes surpass to most other damage builds. You have a couple tricks up your sleeve like using epidemic to nuke adds around bosses, Flesh golem’s charge to destroy breakbars and a couple other things. Power Nerco is ok and niche but really all the necromancers I see are going Viper Condi-damage.


Condition Necromancer: http://sickestguild.com/forum/m/31644179/viewthread/25151391-spirit-vale-condition-reaper-guide
Kinda close to the Engineer in terms of damage, your main gimmick is epidemic for nuking down those annoying small ghosts in Gorseval (your basically copying 25 stacks of bleeding and burning and more to them) and the bandits in Sabatha (also you can copy conditions from the 3 “bosses” back to Sabatha when she comes down).


Power Nercomancer: http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Reaper_-_Offensive_Blood_Support
Power necromancer is ok due to Transfusion and it has a couple tricks of its own.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

General composition roles

 

So far all encounters have these roles:

 

- 1 Healer

- 8 DPS/Boon Support

- 1 Tank (except Sabatha)

 

Overall you’re trying to maximize your DPS while still having enough support and mastery of the mechanics to keep everyone alive. This means everyone who’s not the healer or tank needs to run the highest DPS gear they can (Berserker, Assassins, Sinister, Vipers) and run the best damage build they can while still equipping enough utilities and traits to stay alive.

 

The Healer

 

Can be filled by:

 

-A Druid

-Aura healing Tempest

 

Usually a Druid but you can also sub in an Elementalist if you can’t find a Druid for some reason. You’ll want one healer in the group for all Raid encounters for your first clear and you’ll rely on them to heal through some hard to avoid damage from each boss. My personal recommendation is that your healer focus their build and gear to mostly healing for your first clear as you’ll need the extra healing while your other teammates are learning the mechanics.

 

 

Offensive Boon Generation (25 Might, Fury, quickness and alacrity):

 

Usually Filled by:

 

-Phalanx Strength Warriors (might

-Revenants (might, fury)

-Chronomancer (Quickness, alacrity)

 

Decent Substitutes

 

-Aura sharing elementalists (fury)

-Druid’s pets (fury from tiger)

-More Revenants! (More might!)

-Various professions for low amounts of might and fury

 

Every encounter is tuned expecting you to have 25 might and fury up all the time and high uptimes of quickness and alacrity. The current meta is simply using 1 Phalanx strength warrior and 1 Revenant per 4-5 man group and 1 Chronomancer per Raid. If you can’t access that because you’re missing key professions, you’ll need to either need to find other skills from your other professions to make up those boons not being produced (especially might and fury). If you’re missing a PS warrior, stacking more Revenants and having them camp glint. For fury, a Druid can have their tiger spam their fury shout and a healing aura tempest can equip Zephyr’s Boon to have their auras grant Fury. There are probably a couple more ways to get 25 might and fury but I’ve listed the easiest ways.

 

 

Tank (Vale Guardian and Gorseval)

 

Usually filled by:

 

-Guardian

-Revenant

-Scrapper tank

-Chrono-tank

-Almost every profession with above base toughness

 

At this point I’ve seen nearly every kind of profession tank with various degrees of success. Tanking is something each player seems to do differently and varies by group by group. There are some more prominent examples that I’ve listed but I’d be here all day if I tried to list all the different types of tanks. While the main requirement is that you hold aggro with the most toughness and sustain yourself, usually the best tank builds bring something else, whether that's support (Chrono-tank), dps (Revenant) or break-bar CC skills (Scrapper tank) so what tank is best for you group usually depends on what the DPS can't cover. 

 

Vale Guardian Unique Composition Requirements

 

-4 Members enough mobility and ranged damage for Green Circle duty

-2-3 Members with condition damage

-1 member with boon removal

-DPS members need to be decent at damaging moving targets.

 

 

 

Green circle duty

 

Recommended choices:

 

-Druid

-Chronomancer

-Longbow DPS Dragonhunter

-Condi-Reaper

 

Usually the healer joins this group so you’ll need 3 DPS members with good ranged damage and a good amount of knockbacks to deal with seekers. 

 

 

 

 

Condi-damage members

 

Recommended choices:

 

-Condi-engy

-Burn-Berserker

-Condi-Reaper

 

Any build with good condition damage will do as long as they can get the Red Guardian down in the split phase fairly easily.

 

 

 

 

Boon removal

 

Recommended choices

 

-Mesmer sword auto-attack

-Necromancer utilities

-really any boon removal

 

Basically someone needs to have boon removal for the Blue Guardian on the split phase 99% of the time this is just the Chronomancer using their sword auto-attack.

 

 

 

 

Everyone else not in a special role

 

If all the other positions (general or vale guardian specific) are filled the remaining professions should focus on as much DPS that’s good against a moving target as possible.

 

 

(To Be finished at a later date!)

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I wouldn't use Mortar Kit for Condition Engineers. There is nothing in the rotation for the Kit to be effective. I would use the supply crate just for break bar purposes, and only for VG. I've only use Tempest at Gorseval. 

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1 hour ago, NexForce said:

I wouldn't use Mortar Kit for Condition Engineers. There is nothing in the rotation for the Kit to be effective. I would use the supply crate just for break bar purposes, and only for VG. I've only use Tempest at Gorseval. 

 

I would disagree with that assessment. It might be a niche use but mortar kit (specifically the endothermic shell) is very good at helping to control a large "ghost". I don't play condi engineer so maybe one of them can comment on whether or not it has any place in the other 2 fights. 

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Engineer: For tanking, it might be good when first starting out to take more toughness in armor + weapons, but generally you run Viper Armor + Weapons and take Rabid gear.  You run the standard Grenade + Flamethrower + Bomb.  Slick shoes on Goresval you want to replace Bomb kit (normally flamethrower kit is dropped on most other fights).  Scrapper has a toughness stacking trait and has a rather unique regen healing trait whenever you have swiftness so having a party member keeping swiftness up is not actually bad.  If your having troubles tanking (mainly VG), you want to drop Firearm trait line for Alchemy.  Scrapper Engi does not have as much heals as the other tanks and so therefore needs a bit more attention from the healer than other tanks.

 

You take mortar kit on Gorseval to hold large ghosts if you are assigned to it.  Mortar kit has generally a bit better niche utility than Supply Drop, but its honestly does not matter that much what you take.  You generally should not need the CC for 10man raids (VG and Knuckles do not need it).

 

As for thief, the condi build is actually in line with other builds but needs some skill to make it so.... Staff Daredevil thief might actually be high DPS, but it has not been tested enough and requires a very high skill level to do so.  I personally think thief would shine extremely as a condi tank on gorseval due to the fact that the burst can come when you actually get to attack Gorseval and the CDs are ticking down when you are not (i.e. gliding, running to walls, etc.).  Thus, the tank thief might actually outshine scrapper engi on the fight.

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14 hours ago, Kyriel said:

 

I would disagree with that assessment. It might be a niche use but mortar kit (specifically the endothermic shell) is very good at helping to control a large "ghost". I don't play condi engineer so maybe one of them can comment on whether or not it has any place in the other 2 fights. 

for VG ONLY. I never said anything about the other 2 bosses.

 

VG the boss is always moving, and if you place your AOE circles at that spot, he's already gone, while you have the chance to use it while he's in the break bar stance, you either got grenades, bombs and pistol dps. 

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19 hours ago, NexForce said:

I wouldn't use Mortar Kit for Condition Engineers. There is nothing in the rotation for the Kit to be effective. I would use the supply crate just for break bar purposes, and only for VG. I've only use Tempest at Gorseval. 

 

Vale Guardian I find it's still useful for the water field it has as an emergency heal (for yourself and others) since you have 2 blast finishers available compared to the supply crate which is decent for breakbars but has a large cooldown.

 

Gorseval it's needed for the chill on large ghosts and it has a couple other uses like the blind on small ghosts, poison shell on orbs and still the water field in an emergency situation.

 

Sabatha I use the blind on those thugs when the flame wall comes up and the water field in an emergency. 

 

Engineer: For tanking, it might be good when first starting out to take more toughness in armor + weapons, but generally you run Viper Armor + Weapons and take Rabid gear.  You run the standard Grenade + Flamethrower + Bomb.  Slick shoes on Goresval you want to replace Bomb kit (normally flamethrower kit is dropped on most other fights).  Scrapper has a toughness stacking trait and has a rather unique regen healing trait whenever you have swiftness so having a party member keeping swiftness up is not actually bad.  If your having troubles tanking (mainly VG), you want to drop Firearm trait line for Alchemy.  Scrapper Engi does not have as much heals as the other tanks and so therefore needs a bit more attention from the healer than other tanks.

 

You take mortar kit on Gorseval to hold large ghosts if you are assigned to it.  Mortar kit has generally a bit better niche utility than Supply Drop, but its honestly does not matter that much what you take.  You generally should not need the CC for 10man raids (VG and Knuckles do not need it).

 

As for thief, the condi build is actually in line with other builds but needs some skill to make it so.... Staff Daredevil thief might actually be high DPS, but it has not been tested enough and requires a very high skill level to do so.  I personally think thief would shine extremely as a condi tank on gorseval due to the fact that the burst can come when you actually get to attack Gorseval and the CDs are ticking down when you are not (i.e. gliding, running to walls, etc.).  Thus, the tank thief might actually outshine scrapper engi on the fight.

 

I'll edit the thief description then. 

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Just clicked through to the metabattle Staff Tempest, and I have to say I disagree with one of their trait choices for air. While Inscription is pretty good, there are times you likely want the mobility and extra DPS that Tempest Defense offers. This is especially true on Gorseval after his tantrum when you break his bar. For Sabetha, I think it's a tossup between Inscription and Tempest Defense, but I would lean towards Tempest Defense. Build looks good aside from that.

 

Finally, I want to pre-empt Jack's composition guidance a bit here with regards to tempest. Keep in mind, I main tempest. I love my ele to bits. But, as a rule of thumb, I wouldn't really run a tempest on VG if you can help it - the fight is too mobile and the damage/support we bring to the table is sub-par considering other classes that can fill the DPS role better. However, Tempest is viable if you have nothing else to bring. I would recommend either the D/F, D/D or D/WH Fresh Air builds. Scepter has almost no mobility or utility, and brings nothing to the table over Dagger aside from non-projectile range damage. The only time a scepter build might make sense is for ranged DPS, in which case you should be running staff. Also, lightning flash is a crutch and sucks; instead, learn how to be where you need to be ahead of time. Every time someone suggests lightning flash, I roll my eyes. It's not a good skill to bring. The only fight I could even consider it in is Sabetha for a cannon tempest, but even then, you save maybe 20 seconds tops (saving a sapper cycle) on a cannon, which any competent group should be able to handle. DO NOT EVER BRING LIGHTNING FLASH, IT IS A WASTED UTILITY SLOT FOR CURRENT RAID CONTENT.

 

There is a condi tempest build on metabattle that seems kind of viable, but it is ultimately a garbage build. Why is this? Tempest/Ele has to sacrifice too much to run condi build effectively. It's a very selfish approach to raids where team synergy is arguably more important. What the tempest can pull off, a burnzerker or condineer can do better, with much less cost to the raid overall. This is because condineers and burnzerkers provide additional utility to the group; not to mention the fact that you are super squishy on an ele without any defensive utilities compared to a medium armor class with decent HP or a heavy armor class with a lot of health. Running condi tempest requires personal support utilities which further cut down on your group utility (Sig Fire and Glyph of EP are required, essentially). Combined with the fact that you need to run a niche armor set (a light Viper's set will get use on your reaper and that's about it), it just isn't viable to run. Any serious condition build will recommend vipers armor to get close to condi cap. If you're running anything below 70% condition duration without food on a condition build, chances are you're doing it wrong (go all in, or run staff build plz). The MetaBattle condi tempest recommends rabid, which is total garbage because of the toughness. Further, the traits for an effective condi tempest are arranged in such a way so as to be impossible to be the best you can be. Both of your condi oriented traits are in the Fire Master tier and thus are mutually exclusive. Either you get Pyromancer's for the reduced recharge on fire skills, or you get 10% condi damage based on power. The build just does not add up. A condi tempest is a non-starter for me when it comes to raids, as it is just not optimal or effective at its stated outcome compared to other builds that exist. It tries too hard to do something at a mediocre level, not withstanding the fact that it requires a high skill cap to play well in the first place. This is complicated by the fact that any effective condi tempest really ought to be running a dagger, which means you are in a bind when it comes to your utilities. Staff does everything better at ranged - more mobility, more damage - than scepter. Dagger does everything better if you have to not run staff.

 

 

I think there are some viable condi tempest builds out there, but they require the right gear. Likely vipers stuff, with a dagger. Probably want to use FGS, and not get hit by stuff because you'll be running fully offensive utilities.

 

Edited by Jacobbs

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Well I think Lightning Flash has some niche uses in Sabatha. Mostly if your on cannon duty and your guard off-guard by a flame wall, your can teleport to the other side and be safe. 

 

For Vale Guardian I can see why it's not that useful. It would only be useful for green circle duty but for Staff you have burning retreat, dagger you should be in melee and Scepter... why are you using Scepter? 

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2 hours ago, Light Guardian Jack said:

Well I think Lightning Flash has some niche uses in Sabatha. Mostly if your on cannon duty and your guard off-guard by a flame wall, your can teleport to the other side and be safe. 

 

For Vale Guardian I can see why it's not that useful. It would only be useful for green circle duty but for Staff you have burning retreat, dagger you should be in melee and Scepter... why are you using Scepter? 

Agreed. Which is why I say it's the only fight I'd consider LF for, but even then you are better off running something else, imo.

 

By the way, here is a burn ele that can really bring it - but notice it's a melee ele you really have to know your stuff and stay alive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpZm4c5gss8

Edited by Jacobbs

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2 hours ago, Light Guardian Jack said:

I'll fix the formatting a bit more later but I started the group composition part of the guide.

 

General and Vale Guardian specific sections are done. 

For the tanking section, I would say your tank needs to bring something else to the table besides just the toughness. Rev tanks bring passive support with facets as well as ezpz DPS 111111111, chronomancer tanks provide alacrity, scrapper tanks provide extraordinary CC, auramancer tanks provide defensive boon support (the protection can be kind of nuts if geared properly).

 

The rule of thumb, I would argue, is that a tank needs to serve at least two functions in order to justify their spot. A tank that can only take hits is not that great. Coincidentally, that is why there are very, very few warrior tank builds for raid: while warriors can undoubtedly take the hits, they bring almost nothing else to the table (DPS is lacking, team support is lacking, CC is low compared to alternatives).

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23 hours ago, Jacobbs said:

For the tanking section, I would say your tank needs to bring something else to the table besides just the toughness. Rev tanks bring passive support with facets as well as ezpz DPS 111111111, chronomancer tanks provide alacrity, scrapper tanks provide extraordinary CC, auramancer tanks provide defensive boon support (the protection can be kind of nuts if geared properly).

 

The rule of thumb, I would argue, is that a tank needs to serve at least two functions in order to justify their spot. A tank that can only take hits is not that great. Coincidentally, that is why there are very, very few warrior tank builds for raid: while warriors can undoubtedly take the hits, they bring almost nothing else to the table (DPS is lacking, team support is lacking, CC is low compared to alternatives).

 

Reworded the Tank section a bit. 

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On 1/14/2016 at 4:03 PM, Jacobbs said:

For the tanking section, I would say your tank needs to bring something else to the table besides just the toughness. Rev tanks bring passive support with facets as well as ezpz DPS 111111111, chronomancer tanks provide alacrity, scrapper tanks provide extraordinary CC, auramancer tanks provide defensive boon support (the protection can be kind of nuts if geared properly).

 

The rule of thumb, I would argue, is that a tank needs to serve at least two functions in order to justify their spot. A tank that can only take hits is not that great. Coincidentally, that is why there are very, very few warrior tank builds for raid: while warriors can undoubtedly take the hits, they bring almost nothing else to the table (DPS is lacking, team support is lacking, CC is low compared to alternatives).

 

I've seen a few warrior tanks but they all literally just ran the PS Berserker build and just swapped in 1-2 pieces of toughness gear. Not saying it's the best tank or anything but that's what I have seen when it has been done.

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11 hours ago, Menoitios said:

 

I've seen a few warrior tanks but they all literally just ran the PS Berserker build and just swapped in 1-2 pieces of toughness gear. Not saying it's the best tank or anything but that's what I have seen when it has been done.

Yes, it can be done. Frankly, a lot of things can be done that are off meta and still be viable. But I don't think people that are not already mechanically sound and familiar with their class and why meta is meta should start there. Hence my recommendations.

 

There are a lot of viable builds out there, but many of them require a high skill cap to be viable.

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Hmm well I haven't even got around finishing this guide and already the meta has shifted a bit. I'll update the texts in a bit but here's what got nerfed/buffed:

 

-Condi-Warriors got smashed hard with the nerf-bat. They're still a viable condi-build but they're no longer near being the top DPS on Gorseval. Basically since the field they make with longbow berserk burst only triggers once per enemy, they're main source of damage got cut by a lot. 

 

- Revanent also took a hit. They're no longer the easiest profession to stack in a Raid since they're damage isn't as strong. They're still the best fury and boon extend source in the game but you'll only want one or two of them. Apparently they also think Rev should need to use more then 1 on a damage rotation so now they use 2 every once and a while now. 

 

-Alacrity hit Chrono a bit but wtihout any compeition in what they do Chronomancers are still in the same spot.

 

-Thief got an auto-attack damage buff making the optimal rotations sometimes just 1... apparently Thief Autoattack rotations are ok but Rev ones aren't. Still have the same problems of little else to contribute but now thief is a pretty strong contender for damage dealer 

 

-Condi-Nerco. Condi-Engy, Tempest, are still the same just more attractive options since Condi-warriors got smashed

 

-Druids are still in the same place

 

-Dragonhunter..... is.... still not in a good place ;-;. However with Revanents being nerfed they're a bit more of an attractive option in Sabatha if your group is still learning and want some protection. 

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45 minutes ago, Spear Of Flame said:

So no guardian green team anymore?

 

also, go engi if we're gonna go condi? Or is it just a toss up between engi and zerker?

 

Condition Engineer is a solid choice. Burnzerker still does good dps. They aren't as powerful as before, but still viable. I think most groups wants Warrior to be PS Warriors now. If you have used Engineer and are familiar with the Skill Rotation, go with Condition Engineer. 

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1 hour ago, Spear Of Flame said:

So no guardian green team anymore?

 

also, go engi if we're gonna go condi? Or is it just a toss up between engi and zerker?

 

Condition Engineer, Condition Necro, Condition Thief and Condition Warrior are all good choices really depends on circumstance and your composition.

 

Engineer is best straight up condi-damage but Nerco is best at ranged and can beat engineer if you can stack nercos to abuse Epidemic on Gorseval.

 

 

Guardian's position never really changed. They're still a good green circle group member and good for learning Sabatha with perma-protection but nothing really changed for them unlike thief who got a damage buff. 

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On 1/7/2016 at 11:55 AM, Jacobbs said:

Just clicked through to the metabattle Staff Tempest, and I have to say I disagree with one of their trait choices for air. While Inscription is pretty good, there are times you likely want the mobility and extra DPS that Tempest Defense offers. This is especially true on Gorseval after his tantrum when you break his bar. For Sabetha, I think it's a tossup between Inscription and Tempest Defense, but I would lean towards Tempest Defense. Build looks good aside from that.

 

Finally, I want to pre-empt Jack's composition guidance a bit here with regards to tempest. Keep in mind, I main tempest. I love my ele to bits. But, as a rule of thumb, I wouldn't really run a tempest on VG if you can help it - the fight is too mobile and the damage/support we bring to the table is sub-par considering other classes that can fill the DPS role better. However, Tempest is viable if you have nothing else to bring. I would recommend either the D/F, D/D or D/WH Fresh Air builds. Scepter has almost no mobility or utility, and brings nothing to the table over Dagger aside from non-projectile range damage. The only time a scepter build might make sense is for ranged DPS, in which case you should be running staff. Also, lightning flash is a crutch and sucks; instead, learn how to be where you need to be ahead of time. Every time someone suggests lightning flash, I roll my eyes. It's not a good skill to bring. The only fight I could even consider it in is Sabetha for a cannon tempest, but even then, you save maybe 20 seconds tops (saving a sapper cycle) on a cannon, which any competent group should be able to handle. DO NOT EVER BRING LIGHTNING FLASH, IT IS A WASTED UTILITY SLOT FOR CURRENT RAID CONTENT.

 

There is a condi tempest build on metabattle that seems kind of viable, but it is ultimately a garbage build. Why is this? Tempest/Ele has to sacrifice too much to run condi build effectively. It's a very selfish approach to raids where team synergy is arguably more important. What the tempest can pull off, a burnzerker or condineer can do better, with much less cost to the raid overall. This is because condineers and burnzerkers provide additional utility to the group; not to mention the fact that you are super squishy on an ele without any defensive utilities compared to a medium armor class with decent HP or a heavy armor class with a lot of health. Running condi tempest requires personal support utilities which further cut down on your group utility (Sig Fire and Glyph of EP are required, essentially). Combined with the fact that you need to run a niche armor set (a light Viper's set will get use on your reaper and that's about it), it just isn't viable to run. Any serious condition build will recommend vipers armor to get close to condi cap. If you're running anything below 70% condition duration without food on a condition build, chances are you're doing it wrong (go all in, or run staff build plz). The MetaBattle condi tempest recommends rabid, which is total garbage because of the toughness. Further, the traits for an effective condi tempest are arranged in such a way so as to be impossible to be the best you can be. Both of your condi oriented traits are in the Fire Master tier and thus are mutually exclusive. Either you get Pyromancer's for the reduced recharge on fire skills, or you get 10% condi damage based on power. The build just does not add up. A condi tempest is a non-starter for me when it comes to raids, as it is just not optimal or effective at its stated outcome compared to other builds that exist. It tries too hard to do something at a mediocre level, not withstanding the fact that it requires a high skill cap to play well in the first place. This is complicated by the fact that any effective condi tempest really ought to be running a dagger, which means you are in a bind when it comes to your utilities. Staff does everything better at ranged - more mobility, more damage - than scepter. Dagger does everything better if you have to not run staff.

 

 

I think there are some viable condi tempest builds out there, but they require the right gear. Likely vipers stuff, with a dagger. Probably want to use FGS, and not get hit by stuff because you'll be running fully offensive utilities.

 

I've softened my view of Lightning Flash. There are certain comps where I think it makes sense to run it.

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