Jump to content

The forums have been disabled and archived as of 1/13/2019. They will remain here for the time being so that you may gather past conversations. Please contact an administrator if you need any assistance.

Merforga

2016 and the Year Ahead for TTS

Recommended Posts

Ladies ,gents ,boys  and girls. 

Stop and take a breather. 

 

When Merf was suggesting his idea to us during our 'leaders' meeting , I was quite curious why would he want to have a commander post not a leaders post.

 

Secondly I was wondering why in the world would he want to have more commanders then leads.

 

After reading all the post of his vision and the post far above, I realised he isn't kicking us old leaders out, in fact he is getting us more commanders so we can do what we enjoy which is leading events.

 

I understand some of you feel that when u got your commander tag it felt awesome. I also understand some of you were exleaders/council members/ex commanders/ex probie or even current members / new members/returning members are feeling and thinking why are we being thrown aside?

Let me say this from my own interpretation of what's Merf vision.

 

Better to have more commanders to help lead events , help other guildies ,have lots of fun doing what we love to do, host/lead some awesome events like Asians canto teq or byte breaking our eardrum with her voice.

 

I understand that things may look /sound weird but like byte said why not give it a try

 

Last but not least if anyone has any ideas you want it to be heard why not sent a mail to any commanders/ commanding  officer . Unless they didn't reply you or ignored you totaly due to either they aren't online or to busy I'm sure we all love to hear ideas/suggestions from the community.

In fact I dare to say that what ever we are doing as commanders /leaders , administrative,  CO or even oompaloompapaa (can't remember what other post) we are doing it for the community.

 

Those of you who have seen the way I do things know that I do it to my best abilities. I may not be the best commander in tts but I'm sure I'm slowly but surely improving.

 

@Merforga I might have missed out other key points for the transition but again still learning XD

 

Ps. I really do have a revenant char named 'I Taste good'

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's sad, but I sinceriously hope a compromise can be made. If not, I see PAC and EU bearing  the brunt of the community commander situation. They rely on the goodwill of the community to get their events done most of the time. This miscomunication in what the commander  position is, and what we thought it would be, has left a very sour taste in all of our mouths.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The community argument for being in 2 guilds is an interesting one @Merforga. I really hope that requirement is one that can either be made more flexible in the future or one that can have case-by-case exceptions. In theory it helps bridge the gap between timezones, but in practice if someone has work that only allows them to come out to one timezone, it could make more sense to have the extra commanders that comes from only needing 1 guild, since then you will have a larger pool of commanders overall, and therefore it is more likely that you will have commanders from each timezone online at any one time.

Edited by Nightlark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Nightlark said:

The community argument for being in 2 guilds is an interesting one @Merforga. I really hope that requirement is one that can either be made more flexible in the future or one that can have case-by-case exceptions. In theory it helps bridge the gap between timezones, but in practice if someone has work that only allows them to come out to one timezone, it could make more sense to have the extra commanders that comes from only needing 1 guild, since then you will have a larger pool of commanders overall, and therefore it is more likely that you will have commanders from each timezone online at any one time.

I honestly think the community lives on TeamSpeak for the most part. Most TTS guild chats are dead (compared to some other guilds I'm in), so I'm really suspicious of the argument that it's for community purposes. It just seems like an after-the-fact justification for the requirement of 2 slots.

 

I'm not sure why admin roles can't just take on the task of setting people to active by delegation. Process screenshots of people at TTS events, send list to guild managers, managers set people to active. To ease the burden, do activtiy/purge once a quarter instead (which is basically as often as it happens now). I understand the functional change internally (offloading admin), but why not go whole hog? I mean, TTS has shared accounts, presumably - and you can probably setup some free accounts. Let them sit in the guild long enough and they should be able to do all of these things, and you can even bypass the step of delegating to guild managers. The TTS Admin person just needs the login info for 2 free accounts. You can manage 10 guilds with 1 person that way.

 

The reason I don't think this is feasible is because very, very few actually want to do the admin work, and so some "active" leadership role will ALWAYS require some component of admin work so as to make sure it gets done.

Edited by Jacobbs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

22 minutes ago, Jacobbs said:

I honestly think the community lives on TeamSpeak for the most part. Most TTS guild chats are dead (compared to some other guilds I'm in), so I'm really suspicious of the argument that it's for community purposes. It just seems like an after-the-fact justification for the requirement of 2 slots.

 

Also:

16 hours ago, Erik said:

 

If setting a member to "active" is "a significant amount of admin work" - then I'm not quite sure what to offer you.

 

To me, neither of these are justification for the requirement of 2 slots.  Setting a member to active is frankly no big deal. Its maybe 2 or 3 mintues a night. Neither would be filing PR reports if the situation arose.

 

Obviously @Merforga has the reins and is free to do whatever he likes, but this simply seems to stifle growth potential with no reason other than "it's how we've always done it."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Liara Wolfsbane said:

........all i am upset/frustrated about is how there was no consideration or conversation to current "community commanders" (those of us with the blue dorito)... reading the initial post that said "Commanders- those of you who like to lead events" i was excited, that was me, i was all over it, and still want to me...... i just want the respect to those who helped lead your events in the past and assumed they would transition to become the new "commander" (if they were actively leading properly, AND if they want to consistently lead events and follow the new commander role).... don't make them start all over again, as if they don't know anything...and were never valued for their efforts. give them the option.

 

it's just a feeling that i worked hard, gave a lot of my time and efforts into this and then just had it taken away. maybe i am too sensitive.. maybe i over-reacted and should just apply....maybe it is about the stupid icon, if not for the icon itself, but for the fact that it allowed people to reach out to me, to ask questions, to ask to have me there when they stepped up to lead to provide support. for all those things i love about encouraging new people to learn and to feel free to ask me anything (no comments), and my willingness to help them......... but it felt like a slap in the face. and now i am torn on what to do going forward.

 

That is totally understandable that people wish to lead things and have some recognition if they have lead so many times that people could look if they have questions or need help

I know the commander requirements have been lowered and all but some other people wish to play and rep with other guilds yet they wish to help out and command for a certain event and/or at certain time. There is a fine line between community commander (someone who pokes) and the other type (the old Dorito) but when you look at it from a perspective from someone like Liara or any of the other former dorito holders they have worked hard and this fine line becomes a large deal and you just took it away from them.

 

and no Liara in my eyes  this doesn't seem like you`re being too sensitive

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok so let me summarise this, correct me if I'm wrong. Ideally you guys would like:

 

- flexibility with number of TTS guilds

- community commander tags

- Teamspeak icons

- to be a commander without having to do any admin work

 

The issue I'm seeing here is that a commander's job is to help foster the community, this means that applying for commander you will have admin duties inherently (rep checks, reporting issues to PR). If that is fine by you then there's no issue there. 

 

Flexibility with which number of guilds is a hard one. With the restructure we are trying to build a community which means we want the guilds that "never speak in guild chat" to be alive again. OCE doesn't really have an issue with this because they are all rather talkative. However that is because we are always interacting with them. Having two guilds allows me to not only let more people know when I'm running an event but it also means that I get to interact and foster community in both guilds.

 

community commanders were obviously people who worked very hard in their own time to get those tags. I wouldn't be upset to see those people recognised in some way shape or form as they have done a lot for the guild. However, with the current structure, can you see how confusing it would be to have 3 sets of commander tags in the teamspeak? The old system allowed this because we used shards which we gave community commanders when they stepped up. Now however we use channel commander which would means that there is potential for confusion amongst all the commanders.

 

teamspeak icons are really more vanity than use so I'm not going to bother with this one.

 

is there anything I've missed?

 

^.^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, unless it changed very recently community commanders did not get shard chat unless they were commanding which lead to some of the problems. Since it took the place of a taco they didn't receive taco whispers and not being in shard meant that they sometimes didn't get into maps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Equto said:

Actually, unless it changed very recently community commanders did not get shard chat unless they were commanding which lead to some of the problems. Since it took the place of a taco they didn't receive taco whispers and not being in shard meant that they sometimes didn't get into maps.

That's Precicely what I said. If you were to have another tag then it would also negate having the taco (as it would replace your taco) and would mean that Oi would need to have channel commander on to hear priority taxi. This would mean more yellow dots who aren't actually commanding.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Byter said:

Ok so let me summarise this, correct me if I'm wrong. Ideally you guys would like:

 

- flexibility with number of TTS guilds

- community commander tags

- Teamspeak icons

- to be a commander without having to do any admin work

 

The issue I'm seeing here is that a commander's job is to help foster the community, this means that applying for commander you will have admin duties inherently (rep checks, reporting issues to PR). If that is fine by you then there's no issue there. 

 

Flexibility with which number of guilds is a hard one. With the restructure we are trying to build a community which means we want the guilds that "never speak in guild chat" to be alive again. OCE doesn't really have an issue with this because they are all rather talkative. However that is because we are always interacting with them. Having two guilds allows me to not only let more people know when I'm running an event but it also means that I get to interact and foster community in both guilds.

 

community commanders were obviously people who worked very hard in their own time to get those tags. I wouldn't be upset to see those people recognised in some way shape or form as they have done a lot for the guild. However, with the current structure, can you see how confusing it would be to have 3 sets of commander tags in the teamspeak? The old system allowed this because we used shards which we gave community commanders when they stepped up. Now however we use channel commander which would means that there is potential for confusion amongst all the commanders.

 

teamspeak icons are really more vanity than use so I'm not going to bother with this one.

 

is there anything I've missed?

 

^.^

I would say that the flexibility of number of guilds is tied to the "seriousness" of the commander rank.

 

Either the commander rank should only require 1 guild OR there should be a separate 'community commander' role for community members who have proven their mettle.

 

Leadership needs to understand that icons matter to non-members, regardless of what leaders think they ought to represent. I personally have no comment on the icons, other than to say, I would be pissed if someone took away my King of Kings icon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Equto said:

Actually, unless it changed very recently community commanders did not get shard chat unless they were commanding which lead to some of the problems. Since it took the place of a taco they didn't receive taco whispers and not being in shard meant that they sometimes didn't get into maps.

 

The commander role now has permanent access to shard cat as well as channel commander chat (from the looks of things).

 

Ultimately, unless this changed in the time I stepped down, we were directed to send out commander whispers, and even pull people in. There were multiple times commanders ignored my taxi's, and unfortunately missed the map.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Community Commanders were always suppose to get in before members, but after leaders, in case a leader dc'd, they'd have a failsafe. Unless there was miscommunication, leaders were always suppose to get them in if they happen to be in the channel. But yeah, for players who were commanders, but don't want to be the "new commanders" , I don't see what the issue is with just giving the dorito icon a different colour then orange/blue and tracking it on a month to month basis with who steps up. Unless you can toggle shard chat with the tag, or it's tied to the channel itself, which I don't think it is. I think a leader still needs to do that for you, if you want to lead an event.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Celtic said:

Community Commanders were always suppose to get in before members, but after leaders, in case a leader dc'd, they'd have a failsafe. Unless there was miscommunication, leaders were always suppose to get them in if they happen to be in the channel. But yeah, for players who were commanders, but don't want to be the "new commanders" , I don't see what the issue is with just giving the dorito icon a different colour then orange/blue and tracking it on a month to month basis with who steps up. Unless you can toggle shard chat with the tag, or it's tied to the channel itself, which I don't think it is. I think a leader still needs to do that for you, if you want to lead an event.

 

No, channel commander is toggled by you right clicking your name and clicking "channel commander" so if we were to give out a new server group it would mean those people would have permanent access to CC chat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  So,  I feel like this is just going back and forth and nothing has come into an agreement,  so I'll just repeat what I said.

 

 Community commanders have always been appreciated,  especially when we lack leaders.   There was never any intent of "oh who cares about them".   Nope.  In fact,  most community commanders are respected former leaders that chose to step down on their own accord,  or people that shared an interest of leading but didn't have the time commitment of doing the "behind the scenes" work.

 

  AS ALWAYS,  anyone in the community,  whether a previous commander or not,  is welcome to poke a leader during any timezone and request to lead.  We cannot always guarantee that there is an available spot,  but I think so far at Pacific we've only turned down someone ONCE because 2 commanders (previously leaders) wanted to lead and the other spot was filled by a different community member (iirc).   The only difference is there isn't an icon associated with "community commanders" that do not wish to apply for the upgraded commander rank.  The idea was to merge leader and commander together so that those that wished to focus on leading events could do so without the admin work,  and so forth with leaders that wanted to focus more on admin work.

 

  The reason for the 4 week "trial" is the same reason we had the "tick" system previously.  We want to make sure that people holding a higher rank in TTS are representing the community well and have knowledge of the fights they apply for.  Granted,  some already had their ticks and had the icon,  but now you can apply,  and if you earned your ticks, should likely have no issues becoming a full fledged commander after the 4 week period.

 

  As for the previous icon,  and still with the commander rank,  it's not an achievement nor never was.   When I earned my commander tag long ago,  I was told specifically that it's not an achievement but you are welcome to accept the icon to show that you are available to lead if needed without having the extra responsibilities of a leader.   That's now what the commander rank is, besides rep checks, active status, and assisting the community outside of raids as well.   Just like Condi and Reflect.  They are not necessarily achievements,  but to show the community you have experience with leading those teams and can be called upon if a trainer/caller/leader of those teams is needed.  If you were told otherwise,  that's a mistake on the leader that assigned you those icons.

 

  Now for 2 guilds,  it's not about managing those guilds.  That's why we have the admin rank.  The admin takes care of guild management.   The purpose of two guilds is to expose yourself to the community.   I agree that the main community and exposure is earned via teamspeak,  but people feel more comfortable knowing that commanders are in their TTS guild to assist them when needed.   As someone that helped Pacific grow into what it is today,  and to still help get the numbers for certain events,  being in multiple TTS guilds is very beneficial.   I still consistently ask people to rep if their own our Triple Trouble map and people say, "oh TTS runs at this time?".   You wouldn't be able to get that exposure being in one guild.   It's to help the community grow and prosper,  and part of the responsibility of being a commander is to help achieve that,  not just command events when needed.

 

  I'm not saying it can't be done in 1 guild,  but it's highly beneficial for the community for commanders to be in multiple TTS guilds.   It helps build numbers for all timezones.   If I didn't have access to multiple TTS guilds,  active status would be extremely frustrating to give,  Pacific would likely have never grown to what it is today,  and we'd still have issues getting numbers for Pacific.

 

  Lastly what I'm confused about is why this is being brought up now.  Unless people talked to leaders without my knowledge,  there was never a discussion of this despite it being part of the teamspeak spam for over a month and this thread being up for longer.   We're always open to discussion,  but it'd have been a lot easier if these concerns were brought up during the 2 months of announcing the restructure to finally doing it.

 

 

TL;DR version...

 

- You're always welcome to poke a commander/CO if you'd like to lead.  We can't always give you the opportunity every night,  but the opportunity to lead has NOT changed what-so-ever.  Just like before the restructure.

- Leader and previous Commander ranks no longer exist.   They were merged into the new version of commander.  Admins are also a new rank,  that are responsible for all the guild management that was originally shared between Council and Leaders.

- The Trial is much like the previous tick system,  but with a few more responsibilities.  The intent is to include commanders to be more active within the community,  not to throw the previous ones out the window.

- Certain Icons, such as the previous rank,  were never an achievement,  but to show that you are capable of stepping up and leading if needed and have the experience to do so.  It wasn't meant to show "oh I know this stuff and I'm good at it".  You show that by actually leading regardless of your rank.  Same with condi and reflect.  Some people take them as an achievement and that's perfectly fine and I personally encourage it,  but it has responsibilities with it, and if you don't agree to the responsibilities,  then you shouldn't have it.   This should have been discussed when you were offered the icon.

- Two guilds are important to expose yourself to the community and assist members in need.  Despite 1 person being able to "manage a guild",  it's still important for commanders to be able to assist and answer questions.   People generally look for commanders in their guild to ask.

 

 

*I'd also like to point out that all of this is my own personal opinion*

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Raven Paradox said:

Lastly what I'm confused about is why this is being brought up now.  Unless people talked to leaders without my knowledge,  there was never a discussion of this despite it being part of the teamspeak spam for over a month and this thread being up for longer.   We're always open to discussion,  but it'd have been a lot easier if these concerns were brought up during the 2 months of announcing the restructure to finally doing it.

 

I think the reason this is being brought up now is because while we knew that there were changes coming in, there was a lack of detail in what those changes would be. The description in the first post says the it is the "good old commander" position, which made us think that it would be much more similar to the community commander position but with the responsibility of running a minimum number of events per week, and on a regular basis (ex: like a community commander that runs events for NA spawn on Tuesdays, and PAC spawn on Thursdays/Fridays). From the few leaders I talked to, that was also the impression I got as well; there was never a mention about 2 guild slots being needed.

 

2 hours ago, Saith of Dusk said:

An icon for previous community commanders that was immediately retired.

 

I personally don't care about it too much, I can see that others might. I kinda figured that the incoming changes would mean that the old community commander tag would be removed.

 

3 hours ago, Saith of Dusk said:

Lowering of guild commitments to one but with the understanding your community presence must be excellent.

 

This sounds reasonable. There are some regular TTS members (in only 1 guild, of course) that seem to have more of a community presence than a number of TTS commanders/leaders have (or had in the case of ones that stepped down).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Nightlark said:

This sounds reasonable. There are some regular TTS members (in only 1 guild, of course) that seem to have more of a community presence than a number of TTS commanders/leaders have (or had in the case of ones that stepped down).

A+

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Byter said:

No, channel commander is toggled by you right clicking your name and clicking "channel commander" so if we were to give out a new server group it would mean those people would have permanent access to CC chat.

 

 

I don't see an issue with this. I think half the leaders I talk to turn off cc when not raiding, because it's that annoying. If you trust a member enough to lead an event like Triple Trouble,Teq, etc, and they do it weekly or it's not a one time thing, you should have faith that they won't dick around with cc.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Celtic said:

 

 

I don't see an issue with this. I think half the leaders I talk to turn off cc when not raiding, because it's that annoying. If you trust a member enough to lead an event like Triple Trouble,Teq, etc, and they do it weekly or it's not a one time thing, you should have faith that they won't dick around with cc.

 

it is more that we do discuss commander things in CC chat and only having one shard means that it needs to be off everyone that isn't a commander in case we are discussing something sensitive such as PR. In any case we are discussing options that will be viable. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Byter said:

it is more that we do discuss commander things in CC chat and only having one shard means that it needs to be off everyone that isn't a commander in case we are discussing something sensitive such as PR. In any case we are discussing options that will be viable. 

 

I reallllllly don't think community commanders care about the inner workings of TTS. If they did, they'd apply for for official position.  All they really care about is showing up, and leading, nothing more, nothing less. Again, I'd have to say you'd have to trust the same players who you trust to lead a successful wurm fight to not put on shard chat to hear about a pr report against player y or x when not required, or anything else you consider to be private information.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Kantriakhor said:

Now to get to the Old Commanders, with the Community Leader rank not being here, I have been working on an idea for a suite of Specialist Icons that players can earn. 

 

These Specialist icons are for players that have demonstrated their ability to competently lead the 3 Core and the 3 HoT raid events. The old system of ticks won't be used, instead a sort of "Leader's Test" will be held where we will be looking for competency which will result in either a Pass (and the icon) or a Fail (with reasons given as to what they can do to improve).

 

A member can volunteer for this by sending an email to the [email protected] with their account name, guild they're in, and possible dates they'd like to test in. PR (myself in most cases) will handle the tracking, test scheduling, and hopefully the testing itself (with assistance and input from Commander Officers hopefully :D). There's also a sense of progression with these icons:

 

-Teq Specialist: Icon would be a black teq speed icon.

 

-Wurm Specialist: Icon would be a green wurm speed icon.

 

-Shatter Specialist: Icon would be a purple teq speed icon.

 

Earning the previous 3 will result in the icons being stripped and a new red number 2 icon being given, you will now be known as a Core Specialist.

 

-Auric Specialist: Icon would be a gold Fearless Leader icon.

 

-Chak Specialist: Icon would be a purple King of Kings icon.

 

-Mordremoth Specialist: Icon would be a green teq speed icon.

 

Earning the previous 3 will result in the icons being stripped and a new green number 2 icon being given, you will now be known as a HoT Specialist.

 

Finally, having both 2's will result in those being stripped and a diamond coloured commander tag icon would be given, called TTS Specialist.

 

These advancements are compulsory, so that we can see, at a glance, who has risen to what rank of expertise easily.

 

All of these would be server groups and, while not sorting you to the top of channels, under leaders, would serve to distinguish those who step-up and want to lead and be recognized for it. As a server group, I see no reasons for Commanders and Admins to not go for these as well.

 

Also, those who've earned Commander, will be grandfathered in to those respective Specialties (Teq and Wurm basically).

 

 

 

 

latest?cb=20140829235648

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Kantriakhor said:

Snip

Interesting idea.  That would allow us to see if a community commander has (basically) lead enough times at a certain WB, though still allowing others to step up if they want.  Which raises the question, who would get to lead if either both a specialist and someone else poke to lead or if its all three (commander/specialist/random poke)?  How would that be determined?

 

(also wheres the picture tax?  After reading all that was expecting a picture (preferably a funny one or a cat/kitten) at the end)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would assume it would go commander->specialist->random poke but more often than not both the commander and specialist will allow the new person to go simply to further the community. I like this new proposal as it does recognize people that maybe don't have the time to step-up continuously and can't promise 2 weekly events or 2 guilds and yet allows them to show that they still know what they are doing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.